Sun Nov 17 18:48:29 2002-general-Bearcat: My son is in the Navy and a single parent so the kids live with us
Sun Nov 17 18:48:42 2002-general-saddarmy: I had to go to boys room
Sun Nov 17 18:49:00 2002-general-Bearcat: IC
Sun Nov 17 18:49:04 2002-general-saddarmy: That's a good papa
Sun Nov 17 18:49:24 2002-general-Bearcat: Love the kids
Sun Nov 17 18:49:25 2002-general-saddarmy: How is your son doing
Sun Nov 17 18:49:58 2002-general-saddarmy: It's good for them to spend time with you and your wife
Sun Nov 17 18:50:15 2002-general-Bearcat: Wants to make a career
Sun Nov 17 18:50:27 2002-general-Bearcat: he's in Guam right now
Sun Nov 17 18:50:28 2002-general-saddarmy: I am trying to get my life back together
Sun Nov 17 18:50:32 2002-general-Bearcat: E-4
Sun Nov 17 18:50:44 2002-general-saddarmy: hooah
Sun Nov 17 18:50:56 2002-general-Bearcat: Got to be tough
Sun Nov 17 18:51:15 2002-general-saddarmy: hooah
Sun Nov 17 18:51:25 2002-general-Bearcat: my wife and I split for about 6mo back in 95 it sucked
Sun Nov 17 18:51:38 2002-general-saddarmy: SL is keeping my mind off things
Sun Nov 17 18:51:48 2002-general-saddarmy: she hated the SL
Sun Nov 17 18:51:56 2002-general-Bearcat: Good
Sun Nov 17 18:52:06 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Hi all
Sun Nov 17 18:52:07 2002-general-Bearcat: Hi Dan
Sun Nov 17 18:52:12 2002-general-saddarmy: SL I wanted that name
Sun Nov 17 18:52:22 2002-general-saddarmy: Hi Dan
Sun Nov 17 18:52:31 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Sorry, too late.
Sun Nov 17 18:53:07 2002-general-saddarmy: I do have a SLmentoring@aol.com
Sun Nov 17 18:53:10 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: I am lurking...work to do while I am here.
Sun Nov 17 18:53:22 2002-general-saddarmy: I wanted to ask you first
Sun Nov 17 18:53:56 2002-general-Bearcat: we're waiting for more people to show
Sun Nov 17 18:54:00 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Just remember, SL.com willl probably not be around much longer...
Sun Nov 17 18:54:14 2002-general-||||||||| RangerRabbit just entered this channel
Sun Nov 17 18:54:35 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: It is completely slow today.
Sun Nov 17 18:54:41 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Hi Ranger
Sun Nov 17 18:54:47 2002-general-RangerRabbit: Am I late?
Sun Nov 17 18:54:48 2002-general-Bearcat: how did a Bunny Ranger become a Ranger Rabbit???
Sun Nov 17 18:55:01 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I wish I was a real one
Sun Nov 17 18:55:08 2002-general-||||||||| CZbratt just entered this channel
Sun Nov 17 18:55:19 2002-general-RangerRabbit: Because she can do any %&#% thing she pleases today
Sun Nov 17 18:55:25 2002-general-Bearcat: Hey Eric
Sun Nov 17 18:55:25 2002-general-CZbratt: hi all\
Sun Nov 17 18:55:36 2002-general-saddarmy: hey what happen
Sun Nov 17 18:55:40 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Hi eric
Sun Nov 17 18:55:43 2002-general-Bearcat: oHHH bad day ?
Sun Nov 17 18:55:51 2002-general-CZbratt: I actually made it!!
Sun Nov 17 18:55:56 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: I s Ryan here to?
Sun Nov 17 18:56:07 2002-general-RangerRabbit: Bad night -- Esai has an ear infection
Sun Nov 17 18:56:15 2002-general-RangerRabbit: and TRICARE is hozed!!!!!
Sun Nov 17 18:56:22 2002-general-Bearcat: Not yet
Sun Nov 17 18:56:37 2002-general-RangerRabbit: Hey, Eric
Sun Nov 17 18:56:46 2002-general-Bearcat: Konw what you mean Tori
Sun Nov 17 18:56:55 2002-general-CZbratt: Hi Tori, how's everything going?
Sun Nov 17 18:57:03 2002-general-saddarmy: HOOAH to all ;-)
Sun Nov 17 18:57:06 2002-general-RangerRabbit: fair, and you?
Sun Nov 17 18:57:15 2002-general-saddarmy: Tori, my hero
Sun Nov 17 18:57:41 2002-general-RangerRabbit: don't say that, Rick -- I ain't nobody's hero lately (but thanks for the vote of confidence)
Sun Nov 17 18:57:46 2002-general-CZbratt: great, no trips to the MP's last night to pick anyone up = great weekend!
Sun Nov 17 18:58:02 2002-general-Bearcat: you're everybody's hero
Sun Nov 17 18:58:13 2002-general-RangerRabbit: LOL, reckon that makes any 1SGs weekend, huh?
Sun Nov 17 18:58:26 2002-general-saddarmy: u got a smile out of me, I needed it really bad
Sun Nov 17 18:58:26 2002-general-RangerRabbit: Thanks, Art.
Sun Nov 17 18:58:36 2002-general-RangerRabbit: oh, how so, Rick
Sun Nov 17 18:58:40 2002-general-||||||||| Sgt K just entered this channel
Sun Nov 17 18:58:51 2002-general-saddarmy: One of those days
Sun Nov 17 18:58:56 2002-general-Sgt K: Howdy ya'll
Sun Nov 17 18:58:57 2002-general-RangerRabbit: hey, Ryan
Sun Nov 17 18:59:01 2002-general-Bearcat: there's Ryan now
Sun Nov 17 18:59:10 2002-general-CZbratt: hi ryan
Sun Nov 17 18:59:13 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Hey Ryan
Sun Nov 17 18:59:25 2002-general-Sgt K: hello
Sun Nov 17 18:59:38 2002-general-Sgt K: Saw that the chat was at 1300 hrs...I guess I am late
Sun Nov 17 18:59:42 2002-general-RangerRabbit: btw, Ryan, don't know if anyone told you or not but the newbies gotta serve the drinks and mop up after we close the joint
Sun Nov 17 18:59:42 2002-general-saddarmy: I can't believe how big SL has gotten while I was away.
Sun Nov 17 18:59:52 2002-general-saddarmy: GT K thank i did to
Sun Nov 17 19:00:10 2002-general-saddarmy: I have been here since 1200 CST
Sun Nov 17 19:00:18 2002-general-Bearcat: hey I had to shine boots
Sun Nov 17 19:00:20 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Why are you all letting me screw up the Chat time? I keep posting it as 1300 EST.
Sun Nov 17 19:00:30 2002-general-RangerRabbit: Art and Eric will have to toss you their aprons and buckets
Sun Nov 17 19:00:37 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: It is 1300 my time, but not EST. I am hosed up...
Sun Nov 17 19:01:01 2002-general-saddarmy: lol
Sun Nov 17 19:01:05 2002-general-Bearcat: you had it correct in the PM area
Sun Nov 17 19:01:06 2002-general-RangerRabbit: you're not hozed up -- you just keep traveling in and out of different time zones
Sun Nov 17 19:01:33 2002-general-CZbratt: ummm, so am I late, early, or on time?
Sun Nov 17 19:01:45 2002-general-saddarmy: Dan, what weekend does 3rd Bde do their drills
Sun Nov 17 19:01:48 2002-general-Bearcat: on time
Sun Nov 17 19:01:48 2002-general-Sgt K: I have midshift tonight, then a Levy briefing tomorro, then mids again
Sun Nov 17 19:01:56 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Eric, right on time!
Sun Nov 17 19:02:15 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Ryan, you leaving soon?
Sun Nov 17 19:02:16 2002-general-RangerRabbit: "A wizard is never late, neither is he early -- he arrives precisely when he intends to" Gandalf
Sun Nov 17 19:02:16 2002-general-CZbratt: wow, amazing, I've been late for the last couple weeks!
Sun Nov 17 19:02:57 2002-general-saddarmy: CZbratt, I have been lost and just found myself
Sun Nov 17 19:03:08 2002-general-Bearcat: got to lurk in the forum Eric
Sun Nov 17 19:03:21 2002-general-CZbratt: I know, you're right there
Sun Nov 17 19:03:22 2002-general-Bearcat: then someone can come get you
Sun Nov 17 19:03:39 2002-general-CZbratt: lurk in the forum, huh?
Sun Nov 17 19:03:49 2002-general-CZbratt: ah, got it, you're right
Sun Nov 17 19:04:13 2002-general-Bearcat: Rick tracked me down today (srug)
Sun Nov 17 19:04:38 2002-general-CZbratt: I don't get much opportunity to do it, I have to come to work to chat with y'all
Sun Nov 17 19:04:39 2002-general-saddarmy: hooah
Sun Nov 17 19:05:16 2002-general-CZbratt: And I stepped on rabbit pellets the whole way here....
Sun Nov 17 19:05:29 2002-general-Bearcat: no one wants to work Sundays
Sun Nov 17 19:05:30 2002-general-CZbratt: yuck!!
Sun Nov 17 19:05:34 2002-general-saddarmy: lololo
Sun Nov 17 19:05:42 2002-general-Bearcat: ROFL
Sun Nov 17 19:05:51 2002-general-RangerRabbit: oh. . . . .poo
Sun Nov 17 19:05:57 2002-general-saddarmy: yea that one 2
Sun Nov 17 19:06:01 2002-general-Bearcat: P
Sun Nov 17 19:06:03 2002-general-CZbratt: exactly, Tori, poo
Sun Nov 17 19:06:43 2002-general-RangerRabbit: well, I'm glad to see ya'll are rolling around in my dropping while I stay pristine clean
Sun Nov 17 19:06:59 2002-general-CZbratt: not for long
Sun Nov 17 19:07:15 2002-general-Bearcat: Not rolling any more
Sun Nov 17 19:07:53 2002-general-RangerRabbit: we'll see
Sun Nov 17 19:08:11 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Who is in charge today? I see a topic of: What do you look for in a good Platoon Leader?
Sun Nov 17 19:08:42 2002-general-saddarmy: no that was for 1300 est
Sun Nov 17 19:08:43 2002-general-RangerRabbit: Eric is
Sun Nov 17 19:08:45 2002-general-saddarmy: lol
Sun Nov 17 19:09:04 2002-general-Bearcat: Brad posted it but he's nursing a hangover
Sun Nov 17 19:09:17 2002-general-CZbratt: Huh, I thought Brad was....ok, so, Tori, what makes a good PL?
Sun Nov 17 19:09:22 2002-general-RangerRabbit: IS HE?
Sun Nov 17 19:09:42 2002-general-CZbratt: not that I know how to moderate a chjat, but let's roll...
Sun Nov 17 19:09:42 2002-general-Bearcat: Dan You posted the Issues about Tomya
Sun Nov 17 19:09:46 2002-general-RangerRabbit: don't ask me --- I'll just get us off track with NCO and Officer business thingamajigger
Sun Nov 17 19:10:14 2002-general-CZbratt: well, that's part of it
Sun Nov 17 19:10:30 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: What about issues?
Sun Nov 17 19:10:49 2002-general-CZbratt: I have always heard NCO busines as an excuse to keep a PL out of the loop
Sun Nov 17 19:11:07 2002-general-CZbratt: Tori has issues, boss
Sun Nov 17 19:11:12 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I don't think that's the intent, Eric
Sun Nov 17 19:11:24 2002-general-CZbratt: oops
Sun Nov 17 19:11:44 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Art, you mean about some vistors today to help us out?
Sun Nov 17 19:11:52 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I think there are certain things that should remain in our respective lanes
Sun Nov 17 19:12:30 2002-general-Bearcat: I thuoght you wanted to know what our concerns were with the new site?
Sun Nov 17 19:12:59 2002-general-CZbratt: that's what I thought too.
Sun Nov 17 19:13:19 2002-general-CZbratt: I'm way lost on that Tomoye stuff
Sun Nov 17 19:13:29 2002-general-RangerRabbit: me too, but I'll roll with whatever punches are out there
Sun Nov 17 19:13:34 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: Art, I do. I prefer you post them in the PM area, for archive and discussion purposes.
Sun Nov 17 19:13:45 2002-general-Bearcat: OK
Sun Nov 17 19:14:14 2002-general-saddarmy: I believe that a PLT SGT can make or break a PLT LDR career. If the PLT LDR listens to the PTL SGT the others will follow
Sun Nov 17 19:14:36 2002-general-RangerRabbit: agreed
Sun Nov 17 19:14:55 2002-general-saddarmy: The PLT will be watch both of them and how well they contect
Sun Nov 17 19:15:16 2002-general-CZbratt: same, but what happens when the PL puts his/her foot down and says "I'm the PL, this is what I want"?
Sun Nov 17 19:15:41 2002-general-RangerRabbit: then you do it
Sun Nov 17 19:15:44 2002-general-saddarmy: A good PTL SGT can handle that
Sun Nov 17 19:15:55 2002-standby-||||||||| Sgt K just entered this channel.
Sun Nov 17 19:15:55 2002-general-RangerRabbit: and let him learn from the experience of falling flat on his face
Sun Nov 17 19:15:59 2002-private-||||||||| Sgt K just entered this channel.
Sun Nov 17 19:16:01 2002-general-||||||||| Sgt K just entered this channel.
Sun Nov 17 19:16:11 2002-general-saddarmy: That's were the PS and PL should get together 1st
Sun Nov 17 19:16:32 2002-general-CZbratt: Well, remember though, just like the CDR/1SG, they are charged with overall resp. for the PLT
Sun Nov 17 19:16:44 2002-general-Bearcat: Ryan when the screen blanks just hit enter
Sun Nov 17 19:17:02 2002-general-CZbratt: so do you want a dish-rag LT or one who tries to get active in the PLT
Sun Nov 17 19:17:05 2002-general-Sgt K: Oh, I gotcha.....I was just checking the other chat rooms and then came back to this one
Sun Nov 17 19:17:06 2002-general-saddarmy: I have concern when PLT LDRs do what other PLT LDR do
Sun Nov 17 19:17:10 2002-general-Sgt K: I guess I am nosy
Sun Nov 17 19:17:17 2002-general-Bearcat: OIC
Sun Nov 17 19:17:28 2002-general-Sgt K: Anyone else from Belgium
Sun Nov 17 19:18:14 2002-general-Bearcat: How so Rick
Sun Nov 17 19:18:42 2002-general-saddarmy: That's were the PLT SGT puts his/her foot down quick
Sun Nov 17 19:19:13 2002-general-CZbratt: I have to take devil
Sun Nov 17 19:19:36 2002-general-saddarmy: Most PLT LDrs will watch and do what their peers are doing
Sun Nov 17 19:19:44 2002-general-Squad-leader.com: ..
Sun Nov 17 19:19:57 2002-general-CZbratt: 's advocate here (hit enter by mistake)...you can put your foot down, but that LT is a superior rank
Sun Nov 17 19:20:09 2002-general-saddarmy: yes
Sun Nov 17 19:20:17 2002-general-saddarmy: I agree
Sun Nov 17 19:20:21 2002-general-RangerRabbit:
Sun Nov 17 19:20:55 2002-general-saddarmy: If this PL doesn't get the respect from the plt
Sun Nov 17 19:20:56 2002-general-CZbratt: so, the big question is, what do you look for in a PL?
Sun Nov 17 19:21:10 2002-general-saddarmy: he is going to have a long career
Sun Nov 17 19:21:42 2002-general-RangerRabbit: trust and listening to his PSG
Sun Nov 17 19:21:51 2002-general-saddarmy: I look for one to respect my points since I know the Plt
Sun Nov 17 19:21:54 2002-general-saddarmy: HOOAH
Sun Nov 17 19:22:16 2002-general-saddarmy: If I respect the PL my team will follow
Sun Nov 17 19:22:21 2002-general-CZbratt: good, thanks wabbit. But, we have to listen to them too, don't we?
Sun Nov 17 19:22:38 2002-general-saddarmy: all the way to the front line
Sun Nov 17 19:22:47 2002-general-saddarmy: I agree 1SG
Sun Nov 17 19:23:12 2002-general-RangerRabbit: yes, we're certainly not knowitalls -- it's definitely a 2-way street
Sun Nov 17 19:23:16 2002-general-saddarmy: That is where when the PL gets there. We will have that one on one
Sun Nov 17 19:23:40 2002-general-CZbratt: We don't always have the answer, we have to communicate effectively with ourPL's
Sun Nov 17 19:23:45 2002-general-saddarmy: This will be a BIG impact
Sun Nov 17 19:24:08 2002-general-saddarmy: I have seen it from both side
Sun Nov 17 19:24:28 2002-general-CZbratt: I agree rick. You have to sit downa nd talk about duties and responsibilities of each of you
Sun Nov 17 19:24:52 2002-general-RangerRabbit: isn't that what the inital counselling is all about
Sun Nov 17 19:24:58 2002-general-CZbratt: so, I guess open comminication is a key trait for a good PL?
Sun Nov 17 19:25:15 2002-general-saddarmy: I would go past that tori
Sun Nov 17 19:25:27 2002-general-Bearcat: we get mostly cadets from the U they must be confident enough to lead but intellagent enough to take advice
Sun Nov 17 19:25:32 2002-general-saddarmy: this is where you take off the rank and talk
Sun Nov 17 19:25:36 2002-general-CZbratt: Yeah, it is Tori. But counseling doesn't have to happen just initailly then quarterly
Sun Nov 17 19:25:55 2002-general-CZbratt: It should take place every day between PL & PSG
Sun Nov 17 19:25:56 2002-general-saddarmy: I know we have all had those days
Sun Nov 17 19:26:23 2002-general-CZbratt: Not formally, but sitting down and talking..."LT, here's a problem, how should I handle it?"
Sun Nov 17 19:26:30 2002-general-saddarmy: It might be the PL PLT, but I run it and I have the respect.
Sun Nov 17 19:27:01 2002-general-CZbratt: you do, rick, but you have to integrate that PL and make him/her part of the team...
Sun Nov 17 19:27:14 2002-general-CZbratt: too often we shut them out
Sun Nov 17 19:27:18 2002-general-saddarmy: The PLT got to understand that; We will make that gold bar shine so good it will be silver one day
Sun Nov 17 19:27:29 2002-general-CZbratt: and then they grow up to be bad CDR's
Sun Nov 17 19:27:51 2002-general-saddarmy: disagree
Sun Nov 17 19:27:56 2002-general-CZbratt: ??
Sun Nov 17 19:28:24 2002-general-saddarmy: I would never shut thePL out
Sun Nov 17 19:28:31 2002-general-RangerRabbit: but it's our job to "break them in" so that they don't grow up to be rotten officers and mistrust NCOs and treat us like poop
Sun Nov 17 19:28:37 2002-general-RangerRabbit: isn't it?
Sun Nov 17 19:28:43 2002-general-saddarmy: I would want the PL be the key team leader
Sun Nov 17 19:29:10 2002-general-RangerRabbit: OK, lemme throw this out there. . . . .
Sun Nov 17 19:29:10 2002-general-CZbratt: I'm not saying you do rick. But, there are PSG's who want nothing to do with a PL and do everything they can to keep them out of PLT business
Sun Nov 17 19:29:40 2002-general-CZbratt: go Tori
Sun Nov 17 19:29:46 2002-general-saddarmy: That's where Ranger Rick comes in
Sun Nov 17 19:29:52 2002-general-RangerRabbit: the CO comes up with this policy that everyone has to be in bed in the barracks by 2000 Mon through Fri -- it's a new policy for the company
Sun Nov 17 19:30:03 2002-general-RangerRabbit: where does the PL and PSG fit into that scenario
Sun Nov 17 19:30:15 2002-general-RangerRabbit: if we all know it's a hozed up policy
Sun Nov 17 19:30:22 2002-general-saddarmy: The PL doesn't come in
Sun Nov 17 19:30:26 2002-general-saddarmy: That's my job
Sun Nov 17 19:30:36 2002-general-RangerRabbit: oh?
Sun Nov 17 19:30:38 2002-general-CZbratt: do they agree or disagree with the policy?
Sun Nov 17 19:30:42 2002-general-saddarmy: We want need the PLT Ll
Sun Nov 17 19:30:53 2002-general-Bearcat: No that's the 1SG 's job
Sun Nov 17 19:30:53 2002-general-RangerRabbit: so the PSG goes to the CO and tells him the policy is hozed up for his soldiers?
Sun Nov 17 19:31:00 2002-general-saddarmy: It doesn't matter if they agree or not
Sun Nov 17 19:31:01 2002-general-RangerRabbit: not the PL?
Sun Nov 17 19:31:10 2002-general-CZbratt: so they disagree - split forces - PL attacks on the CO front, PSG flanks on the 1SG
Sun Nov 17 19:31:12 2002-general-Bearcat: if it's hozed I should talk to the commander
Sun Nov 17 19:31:24 2002-general-RangerRabbit: AHA
Sun Nov 17 19:31:28 2002-general-CZbratt: but they have to both agree it's wrong first
Sun Nov 17 19:31:35 2002-general-RangerRabbit: there you have it ---- lanes that are clearly defined
Sun Nov 17 19:31:37 2002-general-Bearcat: In the mean time the PSG enforces the standard
Sun Nov 17 19:31:46 2002-general-RangerRabbit: officer business and NCO business and YET platoon business
Sun Nov 17 19:31:53 2002-general-saddarmy: HOOAH
Sun Nov 17 19:32:03 2002-general-CZbratt: Hopefully, that policy was discussed with the 1SG before it got out, and he fixes it first
Sun Nov 17 19:32:09 2002-general-Bearcat: correct
Sun Nov 17 19:32:18 2002-general-saddarmy: HOOAH
Sun Nov 17 19:32:25 2002-general-RangerRabbit: hopefully -- sure would hoze up moral
Sun Nov 17 19:32:44 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I just threw out a scenario in order to try to make (or break) my point
Sun Nov 17 19:32:45 2002-general-saddarmy: If a PLT SGT can't handle his PLT then fire him
Sun Nov 17 19:33:09 2002-general-CZbratt: never said there was not such a thing as officer / NCO business, my complaint is that it's used as an excuse to not keep people informed
Sun Nov 17 19:33:33 2002-general-RangerRabbit: again, I don't think that's the intention
Sun Nov 17 19:34:03 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I think that sometimes some hozed up things happen even within the realm of good
Sun Nov 17 19:34:19 2002-general-saddarmy: My SL will know my policy and what I expect out of them. If the CO said 2200; then 2200 hrs it wil be
Sun Nov 17 19:34:33 2002-general-saddarmy: no / asked
Sun Nov 17 19:34:38 2002-general-saddarmy: ?
Sun Nov 17 19:34:55 2002-general-saddarmy: You got to make a team
Sun Nov 17 19:35:01 2002-general-CZbratt: they sure do, even with the best intentions, good things go bad
Sun Nov 17 19:35:07 2002-general-saddarmy: from the top to the bottom
Sun Nov 17 19:35:07 2002-general-RangerRabbit: so, Rick, what do you do when you know you have a hozed up policy out there -- just let it ride?
Sun Nov 17 19:35:34 2002-general-saddarmy: like what
Sun Nov 17 19:35:46 2002-general-CZbratt: we had this one on the forum - I think it was SGT's Business...
Sun Nov 17 19:36:03 2002-general-CZbratt: about a PT policy that was perceived as bad
Sun Nov 17 19:36:17 2002-general-RangerRabbit: well. . . .. say the CO wants to do a health and welfare every single Saturday and Sunday morning simply to see who has booze in the barracks and who has females/males in their rooms
Sun Nov 17 19:36:30 2002-general-CZbratt: I wrote a flaming response to it, but I think only AZTEC read it!!!
Sun Nov 17 19:36:32 2002-general-RangerRabbit: it's well within his authority to do so, but it's murder on the unit cohesion and moral
Sun Nov 17 19:36:46 2002-general-saddarmy: good one tori
Sun Nov 17 19:36:47 2002-general-RangerRabbit: what do you do, Rick? go along or fight it?
Sun Nov 17 19:37:32 2002-general-saddarmy: First I would never have one every Sat or Sun; they will catch onto it
Sun Nov 17 19:37:40 2002-general-saddarmy: I agree with it
Sun Nov 17 19:37:48 2002-general-saddarmy: Today we need more of them
Sun Nov 17 19:37:56 2002-general-RangerRabbit: but it's not YOUR call, Rick -- it's the CO's
Sun Nov 17 19:38:29 2002-general-RangerRabbit: but is it your place to agree or disagree?
Sun Nov 17 19:38:31 2002-general-saddarmy: I would talk with my PL andlet the PL see my point on every S&S
Sun Nov 17 19:38:35 2002-general-CZbratt: shouldn't you see what the climate in the unit is first, Rick? Maybe there's nothing wrong, the CO just wants to flex
Sun Nov 17 19:38:56 2002-general-saddarmy: agree
Sun Nov 17 19:39:24 2002-general-CZbratt: so, if that's the case, and you know it will destroy morale, do you still go with it?
Sun Nov 17 19:39:27 2002-general-saddarmy: I would always sit back and watch how he is
Sun Nov 17 19:39:50 2002-general-RangerRabbit: Agree? How so, Rick?
Sun Nov 17 19:39:59 2002-general-saddarmy: Then I would get with my SL & then PL
Sun Nov 17 19:40:42 2002-general-CZbratt: I think we lost some folks....Boss? Art? Ryan?
Sun Nov 17 19:40:47 2002-general-saddarmy: I am big when it comes to Team work, never leave anyout
Sun Nov 17 19:41:07 2002-general-Bearcat: Art here watching
Sun Nov 17 19:41:34 2002-general-CZbratt: Art, you're guard or reserves?
Sun Nov 17 19:41:46 2002-general-Bearcat: Guard
Sun Nov 17 19:42:06 2002-general-CZbratt: How is the PL / PSG climate in the guard?
Sun Nov 17 19:42:32 2002-general-Bearcat: Here in MN we don't have very many PL
Sun Nov 17 19:42:40 2002-general-Bearcat: mast are cadets
Sun Nov 17 19:42:48 2002-general-Bearcat: or mustang
Sun Nov 17 19:42:55 2002-general-CZbratt: I mean no offense, but a lot of the guard unit's I've seen have NCO's that are older than dirt and PL's that just popped the pacifier out..
Sun Nov 17 19:43:23 2002-general-Bearcat: you've got it right
Sun Nov 17 19:43:27 2002-general-RangerRabbit:
Sun Nov 17 19:43:40 2002-general-Bearcat: I'm a Viet Vet myself
Sun Nov 17 19:43:47 2002-general-RangerRabbit: ROFL -- never quite heard it put that way before
Sun Nov 17 19:43:50 2002-general-CZbratt: So, I would guess that the relationship is even more aggravated by the age difference?
Sun Nov 17 19:44:08 2002-general-Bearcat: Most of them listen well
Sun Nov 17 19:44:29 2002-general-Bearcat: The mustangs can be a problem
Sun Nov 17 19:44:34 2002-general-CZbratt: So what happens when a PL tries to assert his/her authority?
Sun Nov 17 19:44:55 2002-general-Bearcat: esp. Those who come to us from active enlisted
Sun Nov 17 19:45:28 2002-general-Bearcat: The PSG goes along as long as it doesn't hurt training
Sun Nov 17 19:45:57 2002-general-CZbratt: yeah, most active folks think they can jump in and run a guard unit - entirely different animal!
Sun Nov 17 19:46:02 2002-general-RangerRabbit: ...
Sun Nov 17 19:46:03 2002-general-Bearcat: then he goes to the commender or myself and we get it straight
Sun Nov 17 19:46:19 2002-general-CZbratt: But what if the PL is right?
Sun Nov 17 19:46:45 2002-general-saddarmy: Then we suck it up and move on
Sun Nov 17 19:46:52 2002-general-Bearcat: Then the PSG gets counseled
Sun Nov 17 19:47:28 2002-general-CZbratt: And I bet the PSG stops talkin to the PL.now everything is NCO Business.
Sun Nov 17 19:47:41 2002-general-Bearcat: I handle PSG's the ole Man handles the PL's
Sun Nov 17 19:47:49 2002-general-saddarmy: good point
Sun Nov 17 19:48:10 2002-general-Bearcat: No I'll dump his a$$ in a heart beat
Sun Nov 17 19:48:13 2002-general-RangerRabbit: HOOOOOAAAAAHHHHH!!!
Sun Nov 17 19:48:23 2002-general-CZbratt: wish I had that option!!!
Sun Nov 17 19:48:33 2002-general-saddarmy: Who the PL or PS
Sun Nov 17 19:48:34 2002-general-Bearcat: just did it to a PSG i grew up in the guard with
Sun Nov 17 19:48:56 2002-general-Bearcat: whoever is wrong
Sun Nov 17 19:49:35 2002-general-CZbratt: Cool. So, what other traits are important in a PL, not that we got WAAAY off track
Sun Nov 17 19:49:43 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I worked for an OPS NCO who REFUSED to let officers chew out his troops --- always said that if an officer had an issue with on "his" soldiers then the officer should come see him or the OPS Officer -- isn't that the same as NCO/O business?
Sun Nov 17 19:49:55 2002-general-Bearcat: wrong being an agreement between the Co and myself
Sun Nov 17 19:50:31 2002-general-CZbratt: why can't an officer discipline soldiers?
Sun Nov 17 19:50:43 2002-general-Bearcat: It was always my job to do the chewing
Sun Nov 17 19:51:15 2002-general-saddarmy: He can if I am not around
Sun Nov 17 19:51:31 2002-general-Bearcat: He can but I'd rather have him seperate from that ....
Sun Nov 17 19:51:40 2002-general-saddarmy: The PL will know my feelings on that issue when he get there
Sun Nov 17 19:51:43 2002-general-Bearcat: makes him look like the good guy
Sun Nov 17 19:51:57 2002-general-RangerRabbit: didn't say he couldn't, but MSG Watts felt that it should come through him first
Sun Nov 17 19:52:02 2002-general-CZbratt: I'm just curious, because isn't that like telling an officer to walk by a deficiency, and therefore set a new standard?
Sun Nov 17 19:52:22 2002-general-saddarmy: TACT
Sun Nov 17 19:52:29 2002-general-Bearcat: If the PSG or SL does the chrewing they know it's for their good
Sun Nov 17 19:52:30 2002-general-RangerRabbit: sometimes, what we'd get "chewed out" for was because the he or the OPS Officer had told us to do something that another officer might not be aware of
Sun Nov 17 19:52:50 2002-general-saddarmy: good point
Sun Nov 17 19:53:12 2002-general-CZbratt: I've seen that before too, Tori, and it happens all the time
Sun Nov 17 19:53:27 2002-general-RangerRabbit: it happens often in a TPU unit between full timers and TPU soldiers -- they don't know the day-to-day goings on like we do
Sun Nov 17 19:53:34 2002-general-Bearcat: EVERYONE corrects a dificency
Sun Nov 17 19:53:52 2002-general-CZbratt: I,ve been there too, but usually said to the questioning officer "Sir, MSG XX told me to do this"
Sun Nov 17 19:54:27 2002-general-CZbratt: or, for that matter, "MAJ XX told me to do this, Sergeant"
Sun Nov 17 19:55:22 2002-general-saddarmy: I really believe that most PL will depend on his PLT and PS. It's when they have been there for some time and they let lose
Sun Nov 17 19:55:42 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I hear you and I wish I could explain in detail, but this format is somewhat limited -- I know if you'll stop playing devil's advocate you'll know what I mean
Sun Nov 17 19:56:49 2002-general-CZbratt: I know what you're saying, I've been there too. SFC Steele wouldn't let an officer within ten feet of us, and doom on the officer that tried to chew us out!!
Sun Nov 17 19:57:14 2002-general-RangerRabbit: EXACTLY!
Sun Nov 17 19:57:39 2002-general-RangerRabbit: and, whether he knew it or not, that "protection/buffer" made us WANT to bend over backwards for that man
Sun Nov 17 19:57:51 2002-general-CZbratt: Just retracted my horns there for a second...now they are out again
Sun Nov 17 19:58:12 2002-general-Bearcat:
Sun Nov 17 19:58:48 2002-general-CZbratt: Should a PL have "chew-out" rights?
Sun Nov 17 19:58:56 2002-general-saddarmy: It takes a second to lose respect and a life time to get it back.
Sun Nov 17 19:59:44 2002-general-CZbratt: thinking of a PL in the normal sense, not a staff type thing
Sun Nov 17 20:00:08 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I don't think so -- but that's because of how I was "raised"
Sun Nov 17 20:00:09 2002-general-saddarmy: What make a Good PL? Did you see "When we were Soldiers" The key was the top leader and it all ran down hill to the PL
Sun Nov 17 20:00:26 2002-general-CZbratt: And...I have to go in about 10. I'm working on a paper for next week.
Sun Nov 17 20:00:29 2002-general-RangerRabbit: if an officer chews out a troop then the NCO needs to be right by his side to present a "united front"
Sun Nov 17 20:00:53 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I'd give my right arm to work for the CSM in that film -- WOOHOOO!
Sun Nov 17 20:00:57 2002-general-RangerRabbit: he was AWESOME!
Sun Nov 17 20:00:58 2002-general-CZbratt: battlefield OPD
Sun Nov 17 20:01:24 2002-general-saddarmy: I would let him have his a piece of my a$$ then move on.
Sun Nov 17 20:01:55 2002-general-saddarmy: Take it as a learning tool
Sun Nov 17 20:02:37 2002-general-saddarmy: Mistake will happen
Sun Nov 17 20:03:04 2002-general-RangerRabbit: so whatever happened to the old saying that poop rolls downhill -- I thought if the PL got chewed out then the PSG got chewed by the PL and the SL got chewed. . . . . . you get my drift, I'm sure
Sun Nov 17 20:03:05 2002-general-saddarmy: it's how we handle them; that is what I push to my PLT
Sun Nov 17 20:03:29 2002-general-CZbratt: Well kiddies, To AAR this session, I think we got way off track, talked about a subject Tori didn't want to talk about, and still didn't get but one desired trait in a PL, That sum it up?
Sun Nov 17 20:03:36 2002-general-saddarmy: Good things can roll down to
Sun Nov 17 20:03:50 2002-general-saddarmy: that is what i was trying to get across
Sun Nov 17 20:03:52 2002-general-CZbratt: I have soldiers that can roll down hill
Sun Nov 17 20:03:58 2002-general-CZbratt: sideways
Sun Nov 17 20:04:09 2002-general-RangerRabbit: wabbit pellets roll down hill
Sun Nov 17 20:04:14 2002-general-CZbratt: not flat spots to stop 'em
Sun Nov 17 20:04:44 2002-general-Bearcat: I've seen some I wanted to make roll head over heels
Sun Nov 17 20:05:03 2002-general-Bearcat: on the flat
Sun Nov 17 20:05:07 2002-general-RangerRabbit: naaaa, you? Now way!
Sun Nov 17 20:05:26 2002-general-RangerRabbit: this was a good session, I enjoyed it
Sun Nov 17 20:05:32 2002-general-CZbratt: gotta run, all. Back to my business proposal due next week....started.....this morning!!
Sun Nov 17 20:05:44 2002-general-Bearcat: Never done it just wanted to
Sun Nov 17 20:05:55 2002-general-RangerRabbit: thanks Eric, you did a fantastic job
Sun Nov 17 20:05:57 2002-general-saddarmy: good luck 1SG
Sun Nov 17 20:06:07 2002-general-Bearcat: Like a CPL M a couple months back
Sun Nov 17 20:06:08 2002-general-RangerRabbit: I gotta dole out medication now
Sun Nov 17 20:06:23 2002-general-Bearcat: Later Eric grteat job
Sun Nov 17 20:06:24 2002-general-RangerRabbit: catch ya'll on the board
Sun Nov 17 20:06:33 2002-general-RangerRabbit: take care everyone
Sun Nov 17 20:06:42 2002-general-saddarmy: hooah
Sun Nov 17 20:06:45 2002-general-CZbratt: thanks, rick, you too. And you too, wascly wabbit, see if you can get a pellet scooper or something
Sun Nov 17 20:06:46 2002-general-Bearcat: CU Tori